On Tuesday night Mandi was kind enough to join me at the southern Utahns for Obama gathering at the Jazzy Java. We all introduced ourselves and why we were there. We were apparently the only two "undecideds" in the energized group, although I don't know why Mandi introduced herself as such because she is clearly a decided (see: her sole blog post and numerous comments alluding to her man, McCain).
I think even Mandi would agree, it was a nice experience. At the meeting, some Obama representatives were better than others--the ones with the bitter, conspiratorial tone were hard to stomach, but for the most part it was good people interested in the ideas of a pretty good guy. Discussed several times was an obvious Democratic cause central to the Obama plan: helping the poor. It didn't bother me. Rising poverty is clearly a huge problem our nation faces; it's seems wrong to ignore it and, admittedly, some ideas are poorly informed populism while others do a better job to encourage progress. But a dialogue addressing the problem is a good thing where it is a problem that will only forseeably worsen.
Then tonight I had the good pleasure to volunteer at the church cannery canning thousands of cans of peaches. It was a timely reminder of how those who are underprivileged ought to be helped and who really ought to be helping. When properly done, church welfare is a win-win with people feeling good about their service and people feeling good about a welcomed helping hand. And all this minus the compulsory means necessary with state intervention.
Using western Europe as an example, it has notoriously become a more secular society than what we see in the US; however, it is interesting that the fall of its religious activity has been accompanied by the rise of its welfare state. It would appear that when the government robs churches of the significant role of charitable giving, people quickly lose interest in an institution that now has a less relevant purpose in society. Obviously, other social mores are at play, but the government doing what has historically been the church's job has to have an impact.
I don't think Europe's a bad place because its citizens are comfortable with socialism, and religion still does have its presence there for those inclined, but my questions are: Is our country's current roles for church and state the ideal solution for social welfare, or does the government need to step in where the churches have deficiencies, or Friedman-ites, is it stupid to step in at all?
Oh, and I don't think Jesus Christ was a socialist at all as Hugo Chavez and his red contemporaries like to call it. Clearly the distinction is that Jesus Christ asked to sell all you had and give to the poor. If you care for what He said, it is one's own choice to whom, how much, or even at all.
Wednesday, August 20, 2008
Jesus Christ Was the First Socialist
Posted by Wellz at 11:15 PM
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6 comments:
Ok, here we go... Did I introduce myself as undecided? I really did freeze up at the introductions, but I was going to introduce myself as a lifetime resident of the community they have come to despise. Anyway, I'm decided, even more after the meeting. I liked the people, and cheers to them for getting out for a cause they believe in, seriously. However, I did not align myself philosophically with the Obama campaign's mc at the meeting. She had a well prepared stump speech that just was grinding me at every turn. We see things differently, and that is okay. One comment I did appreciate was the line about Obama wouldn't be the president of just the Blue States, but of the Red states as well. Whomever does win the presidency, I hope they maintain that philosophy.
Nate, you summed up my thoughts in your last paragraph. Perhaps I have misrepresented myself in conversations, posts, comments etc. I am all FOR helping those in need, with the huge caveat that the help is volunteered by the individual. I'm not a hardcore Objectivist, but perhaps a diluted version, if there is such a thing. I voted against the "make them be good" idea once, and I haven't changed my stance. I think people should help each other, much more than they do, but I don't think government social programs are the answer. I don't trust them to manage funds effectively, or have the recipients best interest in mind. I truly believe in volunteering time, efforts, and funds to worthy causes. But again, unless you want to breed resentment, you can't force people to donate. Here is another real pisser, while I'm at it. I don't think the church is the answer to all people's problems either. Nater, I agree welfare systems like the cannery and church farms are efficient and effective. I also believe two statements regarding church welfare 1- welfare is available to maintain life, not lifestyle. 2- teach people to fish rather than feed them for a day. For the most part I think the LDS church does a good job of getting bang for their buck.
Jared Stanley sent me a great video clip (that I probably should just post) about a cognitive surplus. I thought if people devoted (voluntarily of course) one percent of their time to worthy causes, we really could make significant changes in education, poverty, etc.
Good post Nate.
Nate, I loved the comment about Mandi's post. As far as controversial titles go, why pussyfoot around the issues? Just come out and say it. Your sad the Esplins were the spine of Orderville and not the Wellses. Mathis, as for your post, I voted down that "make them be good" too. Let's take advantage of the situation and get beered on up. We can't make 'em be good, but we can show 'em how good bad really is.
How many ambers does it take before you feel it?
Mandi, you should post that video. I love cognitive surpluses.
Trav, it's true the Wellses were busy settling SG and nowhere to be found, but I happen to be related to the Esplins in Orderville and several other families. So, really no need to pussyfoot, especially when it comes to successful voluntary communalism. We hanging out tonight?
Along with Mandi, I think you nailed it with the last paragraph. Christ wanted us to be charitable on our own accord, not because our government decided it for us. If I'm not mistaken, there were two plans proposed way back when and one of them seemed more like communism/socialism than the other. Incidentally, that plan was rejected.
Also, I have a wonderful book written about this very subject, "The Book of Mormon and the Constitution", by one of the Seventies in the seventies. If anyone wants to borrow it I'm sure I can find it.
Very nice post.
Hey Jared, If you find the book let me know. It sounds interesting. Cheers.
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